NC Meeting.
ACTIONS
in yellow. Amendments to first draft in green
Present
|
Andy Bateman(Archives) Chair |
Pat Durrant ( |
|
Janet Saunders (Nat Sec) |
John Dervan ( |
|
Jan Lancaster (Publicity) |
Charlie Fisher (North-East Region) |
|
Ian Muir (Equipment/Hut) |
|
|
Jenny Patient (Nat Admin Treasurer) |
|
|
Arthur Howarth(Nat Trips) |
|
|
Gill Platt (Membership) |
|
|
Anna Buehring(Bulletin) |
|
Apologies
John Shears (Nat Sec)
Dave Jefferies (IT)
Gill Cox ( Regional (
Barbara Segal (
Jerzy (
Humphrey Southall (Nat trip treasurer)
Gerry Matthews (Access)
Uta Praekelt (Contact Sec)
Via Uta: Nikki Finch (BMC and temporary
Training), Becky Bates (Leicester Rep)
Via Jenny: Mark
Wallis (MIS)
Chair for
the meeting: Andy Bateman
Minutes of last meeting had been pre-circulated
in March and accepted/amended then.
A Discussion took place re. the meeting Agenda
to set timings
Secretary’s Report
Contact Lists & communication
Secretary reported that the NC Contact list had
been circulated with the MIS.
The Regional Contact List had also been
completed and circulated to NC members.
The regional contact list is being kept up to
date and will be circulated to members as soon as practical.
NC contacts and regional contacts had been
updated on the Web site.
Membership form
Janet had created a new paper version of the
membership form, to a format agreed by Membership Sec and IT officer, and other
interested parties. This has been sent to Regional contacts by post. A copy is
now available to download from the Web and the online form has been removed, so
that only one copy of the form ever needs to be updated.
Membership Sec confirmed the form was working
OK.
Jenny Patient suggested sending a copy to every
member with next Bulletin, so they could give to friends etc.
Day to day admin for the club has been carried
out.
ACTION: Janet
Get a copy to MIS for next stuffing.
Membership Sec Report
Status of members: 373. Slight reduction. Noticed that some members had rejoined after
several years of absence.
Membership Cards
Gill had relayed the membership card design so
that they could be laminated, and showed the design to the meeting. She had run out of the old cards, but was now
nearly ready to go with the new ones. This had delayed some cards going
out.
It was noted that members could not sign a
laminated card. Their name would instead be printed on the card. Meeting
confirmed that they had cards like this from other clubs which presented no
problems getting discounts.
Labels
The labels for the stuffing are to be sent by
the 20th of each month. Gill requested that she was reminded EACH
MONTH to do this.
ACTION:
MIS person (Mark) to make sure Gill is reminded each month.
Publicity
Report was handed out.
Discussion re. Membership Tick-box
Janet Saunders commented that Nikki Finch had
designed a flyer that was copied and taken to the Outdoor Show, and placed on
the Ramblers and BMC stands with their agreement. We do not know how many
enquiries this generated.
Anna Buehring suggested that the Membership form
could have a place for new members to say ‘where did you hear about Red Rope’.
This was referred to Janet Saunders who said she would amend the Membership
Form.
Jenny
suggested membership form should be sent to members with MIS twice a year.
ACTION: Janet
to get copy of form to MIS for next appropriate stuffing
ACTION: Janet
S. Amend Form with required section ‘Where did you hear about Red Rope?’.
ACTION: Janet
S. Make sure IT Officer has a copy for web.
Poster/Flyer
A pdf of the old flyer exists in Janet Saunders’
possession, but she cannot amend this. John Dervan volunteered to ask around
for anyone in
ACTION:
JS and John Dervan to try to get this poster amendable/amended.
Ad in Big Issue
Following
a suggestion from
There are 3
other editions –
Jan had also
asked about sending the BIG ISSUE Janet’s article – she has a contact and WILL
DO THAT. Janet pointed out it might need a bit of
re-writing for Big Issue.
NC discussed this and agreed that this would be a good idea to have an ad
in Big Issue for one week occasionally.
Jan should be empowered to spend a budget on this. Agreed, but no budget
discussed.
Annual
budget
It
was suggested the officer had an annual budget. Jenny (Admin Treasurer) explained that she is working towards annual
budgets for each area of expenditure (see her Nov report), but is not in a
position to propose them yet.
ACTION: Jan to continue actions on Big
Issue. Perhaps budget should be discussed over email when required?
ACTION: JL: I will be sending that
article also to all regional contacts by email so that they can produce a press
release locally, with article, to coincide with a local event – local
advertising combined with local event. Much better than national stuff I think.
ACTION: JL: I will also be putting an
article in the Bulletin to ask again for union contacts (web pages) that we can approach for either sending
them the above article or by linking to their pages
Not had
much success with my requests direct to unions for links with their web pages
(unless they did it without telling me).
Gill Platt added that she though Jan was doing
an excellent job and everyone agreed.
Admin Treasurer Report
Jenny talked about the allocation from the National
Pool that could be applied for. Regions could apply for part of that pool in
proportion to the number of A & B members in that region. (Constitution H8)
The Treasurer will pay out the appropriate allocation to any region that
applies and can verify their accounts.
In addition there is an allowance of £1 per
member due to regions for admin (payable in August). This will be paid this
year.
Treasurer
added to minutes: Bank details and verification of accounts applies to the £1
allowance as well, because of a need to be sure account is controlled by
Redrope members.
Discussion ensued re. accountability of the
regions, and regarding whether any monies for the allocation from the pool, or
the admin amount had been paid out in earlier years. To the treasurer’s knowledge none had been
paid recently.
The National Pool is only 10% of club income =
£700.
Treasurer pointed out her concern that this
issue was related to trip charges issue, because
Treasurer also raised a concern that in order to
help regions who got into these kinds of difficulties and requested MORE THAN
THEIR ALLOCATION she (or NC as a whole) needed better visibility of trip
finances.
The Treasurer was asked if she was able to do
her job re. paying allocations to regions who requested it. Treasurer said yes
she could follow the process and the constitution.
ACTIONS: Jenny
P. Task of Responding to
National Trips
Humphrey had pre-circulated the Nat Trips Treasurer
Report and Accounts.
National Trip fund
Arthur Howarth reported that National Trips had
been well-attended and successful.
Charlie F pointed out that it was acceptable to
make a small loss on a trip like this, or any National Trip.
Gill P pointed out that this year’s New Year
trip would be better organised and had booked cheaper and better accommodation
at Height Gate.
NC agreed that this was a National Trip and
should come out of the National Trip Fund like any other. Proposal was
rejected.
Dates of National trips and regional trips
Jenny suggested that the Web could be used more
effectively by groups to publicise their trips and forthcoming dates as soon as
they were booked, to avoid clashes.
ACTION: Anna to put a note in the Bulletin to this
effect.
Finance
Arthur had pre-circulated a paper showing the
forecast for the Alpine Trip. Currently this showed a likely small surplus.
Insurance Issue
Arthur suggested the surplus be paid to drivers
to help with their vehicle insurance.
Andy Bateman noted this was an important
decision which might relate to future foreign trips.
Discussion took place concluding that cars and
additional breakdown insurance cover for travelling abroad was a resource for
all the group to use.
Proposal: That all extra vehicle insurance be
converted to mileage and paid back to drivers according
to banding system. Carried.
Charlie asked if it seemed likely that other
RR’s would ‘tag along’ or ‘visit’ the trip unofficially. It was a concern that
the trip would suffer if people did this instead of committing to the
trip.
2 people had asked if they could do this – one
had offered to make a donation to the trip if this occurred. The issue was
about use of the trip resources – food, cars etc.
At this point the discussion was closed in the
interests of time. No conclusion
reached.
Scottish Links and
Nikki was absent so Janet summarised the
situation. Views differ.
Nikki and
Leicester group had proposed a meeting/weekend
at Kirk Yetholm Hut in the Borders for November. The Borders were popular with the East Scots
Group for walking and preferable to accommodation in people’s houses.
Arthur –
people at Ling hut in June were not in favour – hard to organise
Gill &
John – want a day trip flying to Edin/Glasgow
Dave J – Had
written an email to say that for a day trip people will be tired when they
arrive and there won’t be much socialising – combining social meeting with NC
is difficult – why not have a summer meeting and make a weekend of it.
Humphrey –
weekend in Glasgow/Edinburgh is better.
Kirk Yetholm could be done on train to Berwick from
Arthur suggested using the Alex Mac hut for a
weekend meet.
Charlie suggested that a few NC members just
hijacked an
NC opinion in support of this. Ideally the best
solution was for
ACTION:
Janet to ask
Bulletin
Anna requested that she needed items to put in
the Bulletin by the end of July.
Motions for the AGM need to go into the MIS that
comes out in August. July 15 was the cut-off point for this.
ACTION:
Janet – to write an article re. use the membership form and recruit a friend
ACTION:
Jan Lancaster – to write a publicity article
IT officer
Dave J not
present, but Janet S produced a list of documents on Dave’s behalf with blanks
for officers to accept responsibilities.
Filled in:
See
Appendix.
ACTION: Janet to send note to Dave and copy to NC.
ACTION: Janet to update Job descriptions in
constitution where necessary
AGM
Gill Platt
reported there may be a problem with use of the Church for the meeting. She
will find out by July 6th.
Kids at
AGM
Proposals
had been received from Gill Cox re. childcare and entertainment.
Relevant
paragraph about childcare:
“I
have spoken to someone who organises mobile childcare for 10.00 per hour per
worker.This seems very cheap to me -another company
quoted £15.00. Number of workers depends on age of children but we
probably wouldn't need more than 3 costing £120 for 4 hours childcare (all CRB
checked). The organiser would only need 2 weeks notice of number of workers
needed. Could we ask all parents needing childcare to book by 2 weeks
beforehand?”
After
discussion, Jan L proposed that we hire mobile childcare for 4 hours. And send
them explicit directions as to how to find the location. Budget of up to £15 an hour if needed.
No
entertainment in the form of clowns was required. Gill to be allowed to spend
up to £50 on materials for creative play –
to be discussed with childcare if they brought additional materials with
them and what they needed e.g. crayons, paper, etc
Carried.
ACTION: Gill P will get a request into MIS/email
for assistance with food and make sure food happens.
ACTION: Jan L. will do the bar.
ACTION: Jan L will do a flyer and booking form for
the AGM to go out with MIS. And receive the registrations.
Outstanding:
Action
– John (S) was asked to investigate if children were allowed to use the
facilities within the halls outdoors playground.
Handbook
Jan L had
received a copy of the old handbook. Nothing had been done with this for 15
years. Andy B suggested that none was needed because everything was now
available on Web.
ACTION: Jan L to write a motion that Handbook
material is on the Web so there is no need to produce a separate handbook.
Archives
Gill P
reported she had membership items for the archivist.
Andy B
happy to have them.
Andy B
suggested he put together an electronic archive using Yahoo files facility.
This would be available to members to search.
NC asked
Andy to go ahead with this plan, which would remove need for a special
restricted members area on the Web-site.
ACTION: AndyB to create electronic archive.
Survey
Anna B said
she would like to send out a survey to discover more about membership’s wants
and needs from Redrope – she wants to use the Bulletin to do this.
Meeting
supported this as a good idea, suggested a prize raffle as an incentive. A
Voucher or some other prize – eg. Free trip?
Reservations were expressed that the survey
should be positively worded.
ACTION: Left with Anna to take this up if she has
time.
Child Protection
(Jan Lancaster chairperson for this debate)
Gill Cox
had investigated this and circulated a paper. Andy Bateman had responded in an
email. (paper in appendix)
AB
summarised his email: that RedRope is not legally bound to do anything, because
it is essentially an adult organisation and does not organise specific events
for children. However we have a duty to discuss and consider how we
organise club events, because we do
facilitate arrangements between parents and others.
JD said he
had some experience with a voluntary organisation that had been legally bound
to go through this exercise. We must ask the question ‘What is RedRope’s
responsibility?’ Any wording we use in our constitution, or documents, forms
etc. should be carefully checked.
AB
suggested and meeting agreed: That we cannot undertake to ensure the safety of
children engaged in outdoor activities.
JL. The
constitution (C3) says all members should actively support child-carers. There
was a discussion as to how this paragraph could be interpreted.
JD. It is
open to a variety of interpretations and could be a risk for RR.
JS. Would
like to see the term ‘responsibility of the parent’ inserted.
JP. In
practise we facilitate, and not organise child-care.
It was
noted that the section of the trip booking form asking about childcare should
also be re-worded along the lines of: “Are you prepared to be supportive to
child-carers?”
This
wording should also be reflected in the Trip Organiser pack – it must be made
clear that the ultimate responsibility for children remains with the
parents.
ACTION: Andy B and John D to word a motion for AGM re.
child protection (Jan L transcribed
suggested wording at the meeting).
ACTION Jan, Janet and John D. to liaise on wording
of trip form and organiser pack.
Discussion: Trip costs issue and Bristol and
Sheffield motions
Motions,
Analysis and Debate
The
preamble to this discussion was
a) that
b)
c)
d) There had been considerable
discussion on the internet between the NC and others re. the transport rate
paid to drivers, the question of rising hut prices and the possibility of
regional and national trips making continued losses.
Charlie
summarised the different parts of the debate:
1) Should the two parts of a trip:
food/accommodation and transport be self
financing within themselves, with no loss or subsidy from one to the other? On
trips which had made a loss – was the food/accommodation side or the transport side to blame?
2) The level of hut costs and food
costs being spent on trips.
3) The question on on-trip mileage and
how to deal with it.
4) The question of reimbursement paid
to drivers.
From the
members present, different regional and national perspectives were compared:
Merseyside
– the surplus has gone down, partly due to there not being enough people on
some of the regional trips.
National
Trips – This was the opposite to
–
there
was no problem this year with accommodation costs, although it was anticipated
that club would have to take account of rising hut charges by 2007. Some
national trips could be expected to make a deficit – for example the New Year
family oriented trip.
–
There
was however a problem with the driver reimbursement – some trips had only
stayed in balance because some drivers had waived part of their reimbursement
(e.g. taking for 3 people in the car, instead of four)
Other
information to hand:
–
(from
Humphrey) National Trip accounts analysis had been circulated.
–
(from
Jerzy) Bristol Trip accounts
analysis had been circulated
–
(from
Janet) a spreadsheet of the nightly rate of every hut on the BMC website (
Transport
Charlie
proposed that :
a) the NC put in a motion to reduce the
rate for mileage reimbursement as appropriate. CARRIED
b) Advertise to the Regions that they
can pick their own rate at their discretion. CARRIED
c) It be left to the discretion of
drivers to waive some of the repayment. REJECTED
ACTION: Charlie to write motion, and alert
regions.
Hut
prices
NC
registered a vote of thanks to Jerzy for his
Janet’s
spreadsheet shows that the mean and the most commonly quoted price is £5.00.
The range is £3.00 to £8.00
Andy B
Inevitably hut costs were rising due to the number of improvements that clubs
had been required to make to their accommodation, insurance costs etc.
Anna:
Food
costs
A brief
discussion took place along the lines that most clubs were managing to eat well
without over-spending on food, and that careful shopping and management could
achieve this.
CF.
Proposal that NC do not accept that Band E is the break even point. CARRIED
We
do not have good evidence that overnight charges are actually the problem (and
some evidence against), and because implied high-band charge would probably
drive off demand. Maybe there IS a need (at least on the horizon), but we
did not agree with their specific proposals.
CF.
Proposal that the NC do not accept that there is a need to increase hut charges
in the way
NC did not feel it could support this motion.
Reiterated
a vote of thanks to
CF.
Proposal that someone be asked to write an article for the Bulletin about care
in managing trip finances. (
ACTION: Charlie to explain NC decision to
Jerzy/Bristol
Meeting closed at
Appendices
1 Red Rope
Documents, Web Page and Information Responsibilities
2.Notes on
Protection of Children Act
3. Draft
motions discussed.
1. Red Rope Documents, Web Page and
Information Responsibilities
|
Key Documents |
Description of Web Version |
Source Doc |
Responsibility |
|
Membership
Form |
PDF doc
to print off |
Word doc |
Membership
Sec |
|
Trip
Treasurer Form |
PDF doc |
Word doc |
National
Trip Treasurer |
|
Trip
Treasurer Spreadsheet |
Excel
sheet |
Excel
spreadsheet |
National
Trip Treasurer |
|
Trip
Booking Form |
Web form
only |
To be created |
National
Trip Sec |
|
Trip
Organiser Pack |
PDF
document |
Word doc |
National
Trip Sec |
|
Safety
Route Card |
PDF doc |
Word doc |
Training
officer |
|
Publicity
Pack |
Notes,
Welcome Letter, Press Release and Letterhead misc. |
Word docs |
Publicity
officer |
|
NC &
Regional Contact List – NC only |
- |
Two-page
Word doc |
National
Secs |
|
NC &
Regional Contact List – General Release |
- |
Two-page
Word doc |
National
Secs |
|
Regional
officers and bank details – Treasurers list |
- |
Spreadsheet |
Admin
Treasurer |
|
Web Pages |
|
|
|
|
Home Page |
Text
blurb, pictures & links |
- |
IT
officer |
|
Red Rope
Logo |
? |
? |
IT
officer |
|
About Red
Rope page |
Text
blurb |
- |
IT
officer |
|
Local
Groups page |
Contact
details, name & phone nos. |
NC &
Regional Contact List |
National
Sec, by reference to Regional Secs |
|
Contacts
page |
Officer
names and @redrope addresses |
NC &
Regional Contact List |
Nat Secs to
supply names |
|
Join Us
page |
Blurb and
Membership PDF (See below) |
Membership
Form Word Doc |
Membership
Sec |
|
Membership
Charges page |
Blurb,
Subscription table & notes |
Membership
Form Word Doc |
Membership
Sec |
|
Diary of
Events page |
Blurb |
- |
MIS
editor |
|
|
Climbing
in regions |
- |
MIS
editor |
|
|
Meetings
and socials |
- |
MIS
editor |
|
News and
Reports page |
NC &
AGM Minutes |
Word
documents |
National
Secs |
|
|
Bulletin
PDFs |
Bulletin |
Bulletin
Editor |
|
Discussion
list page |
About and
how to join a list |
- |
IT
officer |
|
Links
page |
Links to
other sites |
- |
IT
officer to check they work annually. |
|
Trip
Charges page |
Table of
charges with notes |
- |
National
Trip Treasurer |
|
Trip
Booking Form page |
Web form
to print off |
- |
National
Trip Secretary |
|
Constitution
page |
Blurb and
a PDF |
Constitution
Word doc |
Nat Sec |
|
Food and
Recipes page |
Shopping
Guide/Food List 2 recipes |
Trip
Organiser Pack |
National
Trip Sec |
2. NOTES ON THE PROTECTION OF CHILDREN ACT 1999 AND RED ROPE CHILD CARE POLICY (Gill
Cox)
This act makes it a statutory obligation for official organisations such as schools and nurseries, but voluntary for voluntary organisations such as ours, to have an official child protection policy covering areas such as who is allowed to look after children, how these people should be checked and procedures for reporting people whom we suspect might have abused children. A child protection policy should also cover areas such as how many people look after children at a time (ideally never less than 2), reporting accidents,
Sleeping arrangements etc.
The Dept of Health website http://www.crb.gov.uk/downloads/childprotect.pdf makes it clear that all this is voluntary but since it was introduced it appears to have become increasingly expected that voluntary groups comply with it.
I have spoken with someone from the churches child protection advisory service website http://www.ccpas.co.uk/ (This may seem a strange choice but they do run an advisory line partly funded by the Dept of Health which is aimed at non church as well as church groups. The D.O.H. own help number doesn’t seem to function and there aren’t many other people to contact). He took a pretty strong line that the government expected voluntary groups to comply. Essentially this means that we shouldn’t have people looking after children who haven’t had an advanced level criminal records check.
He thought it ok for the culture of the group to be that people offered (and parents accepted) to look after children but this could in no way be officially organised by the group unless the people concerned had been checked. Officially organised would include a meeting where the issue was brought up but it would be ok for parents to make private arrangements.
I also spoke to someone at our local children’s information centre who was less prescriptive but thought that we should have a child protection policy and childcarers checked to protect ourselves against possible allegations. She told me that there is no fee charged by the criminal records bureau and local children’s information centres could arrange checks of local individuals for an admin fee of £8.00. Currently it takes about 2-3 weeks to get a check done. Thus it would be theoretically possible to sort out who was going to do childcare in advance and get a check done. Some people will already have had checks for work etc. but even this can be dodgy as, as well as actual criminal convictions there may be questionable details which have been supplied to the employer who asked for the form but not put on the form itself.
I understand that for insurance purposes (but do we have any insurance which covers this sort of thing?) we would have to have criminal record checks etc. as we would if we wanted any charitable funding.
I find all this rather dispiriting. It is obviously important to protect children but I would rather leave the decision to parents to decide who looks after their children. It seems however that it is increasingly difficult for us to continue to operate childcare in the way that we have. Certainly statements such as “childcare can usually be arranged” need to be removed from the website. Questions asking if people are willing to do childcare probably need removing from forms (or do we start asking if people are happy to undergo CRB checks?)
Beyond this their needs to be an in depth discussion (? At the AGM ? in the bulletin ) about what we aught to do Gill Cox June 2005.
Draft Motions discussed:
a)
This meeting proposes that the NC should investigate the charge made for trip accommodation and revise the overnight rates to ensure that they are in line with the realistic costs of the accommodation we want to use.
(NB text in bold was not actually available at the meeting, as the motion was handwritten from memory by the Sheffield Secretary. It is however the whole motion that the Sheffield AGM voted on, and this reflects the spirit of the NC debate, that NC should review charges.)
The NC discussed this motion. If brought to the AGM, the NC will support it, and will be happy to conduct further review during the next club year.
b)
Hi
All
This draft is for discussion, and for finalisation at the SGM on 7th July.
However I want to submit it to the RR National Committee before their
meeting this weekend (2nd July), so if you have any immediate comments,
please let me have them immediately!
In support of this motion, I'm attaching a spreadsheet, analysing the last
few year's trips. The crucial assumption that I'm deriving from this, is
that the majority of cost increases are to do with increases in hut fees,
rather than transport costs. (Jerzy’s
note)
The motion:
The cost of
running trips has increased over the past few years and steps
must be taken to ensure that future trips are not unduly loss-making. The
current charging structure for trips is based on a notional break-even set
at band E. However, this principle no longer holds true in practice for two
main reasons:
(a) because band E members pay less for transport per mile than the rate at
which drivers are reimbursed.
(b) because the average cost of a hut place per night is higher than the
assumption made.
This AGM calls on the National Committee to revise the trip charges in such
a way as to:
(1) Equalise the Band E transport charge per mile with the amount reimbursed
to drivers (by setting both to 6p, or otherwise)
(2) Recognise that the average hut cost per person-night is now about £2
higher and therefore increase the nightly Band E trip charge by a
corresponding amount
(3) Adjust the other bands according to the current principles for doing so.
- Jerzy
The NC discussed this motion and voted they
would not support it if it was brought to the AGM.
A note has been sent to