Chairs Elected Jenny Patient, Andy Bullivant

Apologies Geoff Boyling, Laurence De Leidi, Barrie Dobson, Paul Ellis, Arthur Howarth, Don Kinniburgh, Ian Muir, Julian Noble, Jerzy Wieczorek

Minutes Accepted and meeting pronounced quorate with at least 39 members present in the hall. Others engaged in childcare.

The meeting began with a look at the revised wording of the constitution.

It was noted that one major point had been dropped in error and needed correction.

Section H/1 No questions

Section H/2

Jake Jackson – If figures withdrawn, how will they be fixed?

Andrew Worsley – Figures fixed by NC/AGM

Section H/6d

Matthew Simon – Proposed that in H/6d the phrase ‘reimbursement rate’ be inserted to clarify that the rate referred to the reimbursement rate of 6p a mile.

Section H/6e

Humphrey Southall – Said the issue about what drivers receive has at times proved controversial.

Dave Jefferies – Suggested the NC should issue guidelines to help.

Charlie Fisher - Made the point that trip organisers could check out any problems with National Trip Secretary or Treasurer. The policy reflects how things are normally done.

H/6e

Humphrey Southall – Raised the point if alpine trips were being proposed we would need to consider the rule on deposits..

Colin Knowles - Suggested clarification regarding trip charges, deposits etc. could be published in trip organiser’s pack.

H/6i

A query was raised regarding whether the fact that members going on part of a trip, have to pay for the whole trip could have negative implications.

Andrew Worsley – Said this is the constitution and will stand.

Jenny Patient – Felt it was not clear from experience what effect this had had. It was published as guidance.

A vote in favour of re-accepting the constitution as it now stands with word ‘reimbursement’ included in H/6e was accepted unanimously.

Colin Knowles was informed that the Hut and Action Fund monies are held in the same account - separated by book-keeping.

Thanks were expressed to all the officers who had served during the year.

Adrian O’Connor reported that this third year, he and Angela Benham had been in office, had been the most settled with no major crises. For this reason it seemed an appropriate time to retire and hand over to a new team.

Some materials had been displayed at Leicester Reference Library and were much appreciated.

Humphrey Southall pointed out that if our archives were collected for a further 20 years they could find a place at Warwick University. Andy Bullivant added that only 17 more years were required for them to find a place at Sheffield.

Geoff Boyling contributed articles to the Bulletin and established the discount scheme with Cotswolds. He had decided to retire but was willing to assist in any way he could.

Adrian O’Connor reported that there had been no outside auditing this year (as per last year’s recommendation it could be done biannually). The club finances were healthy and stable.

The club had balanced its books. There was an excess of income over expenditure although this was decreasing due to increased costs and the club doing things not done before e.g. publishing inserts, publicity.

The trip charge changes had not worked through the system yet. This would take another accounting period.

Adrian explained that an exchange of information regarding the Regions’ finances and National’s finances had not really happened despite establishing the July NC and Regional Treasurers’ weekend on the 4 year Red Rope Calendar. Regional Reps. were not attending.

Andy Bateman wondered if this might be because they found them intimidating.

Adrian re-iterated that there was meant to be an exchange of monies between Regions and National and that the Regions could make more demands.

Dave Jefferies suggested Regional Treasurers should send their accounts in to the National Committee.

Andy Bullivant suggested as it is not necessarily clear to the NC who the Regional Reps are this aspect of the club – reports/accounts may require more formalisation.

proposing regions should submit their accounts.

David Chanter – asked if there was a target figure that could be spent on publicity.

Adrian explained that expenditure could go up and down because it often depended on officers’ ideas and inspiration. For example Jan Lancaster had the initiative of producing a new handbook for Regional Reps. and 5000 leaflets had been distributed in High Magazine (before they went out of date). Extra publications had included the A4 coloured insert plus the AGM booklet.

Jake Jackson – Noted that members’ subs had gone down and asked if this reflected a fall in membership.

Adrian explained that this was probably due to the counting of banking months and Gill Platt added that some members had dropped a band with the new system.

Humphrey Southall reported that the National Trip programme was solvent although he felt it could be more ambitious.

£840 had been invested as the deposit for a New Year 2004 National Trip to the Yorkshire Dales as it was felt it was better for National to bear the financial risk.

Gill Platt reported that we had 372 members at present. 75 were new. 86 did not re-new. She was about to send the list of non-renewing members to Ian Muir so that he could make enquiries about the reasons why they had not renewed. The software was working perfectly and Gill thanked Dave Jefferies for his wonderful up-date and hard work.

Geoff Birch from new group at Chester queried the length of time it took some members to join going through the contact/information route.

Some discussion followed regarding the possible establishment of a stable contact address.

Andy Bullivant suggested this was for further discussion by the new NC.

It was reported on Mark Wallis’ behalf that the MIS was going well and members were thanked for their e-mail contributions.

National Trip Secretary

Arthur was unable to attend the meeting but reported

that there had only been three trips this year. There was a move to extend the scope of National Trips to the Continent and be more adventurous.

Trip Treasuring forms were coming in although at times it was evident that there was some confusion regarding what charging system was in place. The introduction of the new system means there has been a slight dip in charges but as it is not fully established yet it is not possible to come to any firm conclusions regarding the financial implications.

Jake Jackson was informed that there had been no camping trips this year.

Charlie Fisher reported that this had been a quiet year with his main action being writing a letter about a proposed hydroelectricity scheme.

His successor could pick up on the question of wind farms, summit cairns on Ben Nevis and the unfinished business of the Freedom to Roam Act. Charlie himself was troubled by the fact that although access had been gained to uplands there were lowland areas, such as some woodlands, we were now banned from walking in.

Charlie believed there was more to be done and that one approach n the future could be for Red Rope to investigate access in England and Wales compared to in Scotland.

Ian reported that as usual he had had a quiet year in this post but had submitted a web page laying out the equipment available for loan from various regions and nationally.

Arthur Howarth is to be thanked for a donation of rucksacks and crampons.

Andy Bullivant reported that the BMC were busy reviewing their work and structure with a view to making it more effective. There had been a growth in offering practical help to clubs e.g. a workshop about how to gain new club members. In response to a query from Gerry Matthews it was explained that copies of Summit might not be delivered if members joined Red Rope in between the club’s subscription to the BMC as their name would not be on the database.

Red Rope members can upgrade their BMC membership to full membership with its extra benefits at the very reasonable cost of £9.50.

There had been no bulletin published since February. Adrian and Angela had been caretaking the role. It was explained that a particular talent, an enthusiast is required to produce the bulletin who has computer access.

Dave Jefferies reported that he had been doing housekeeping - tidying up e-mail addresses etc. He mentioned that Sheffield had a contact/discussion group which helped keep members informed of activities. On the information side there was work being done on the flow and maintenance of information and ensuring correct information was published.

Dave would be working with Jan Lancaster on publicity.

Jake Jackson was informed that the only up-to-date software that the club held was the membership database on Access.

Phil Grantham was informed that the difficulty in arranging for members to join over the internet was that a banking account was required.

ACTION

In answer to John Shears’ question about whether it would be worthwhile to have search engines Dave said Google uses a number of hits/links but they do not hit high. Getting others to link into our web site was a largely a matter for negotiation.

Andrew Phillips reported that some Red Rope members had been to the Alps this year and he was always happy to facilitate if approached for help.

Matthew Simon commented that there were informal trips organised to the Alps by members which seemed to work satisfactorily. E-mail was a common system of communicating in his region Manchester.

The new treasurer’s forms and up-date of contacts list had been sent out to Regional Reps. to put in their Regional Reps. booklet.

Jan would repeat her attempt to get information about every region in Country Walking magazine and approach the editor of Trail magazine to see whether they might do an article on Red Rope.

The insert with Contact/Information details had been sent out with High magazine before they became out of date.

Jan said that she thought the Internet was now our best tool for gaining publicity.

Geoff Birch informed the meeting that he believed the club information in Country Walking was probably an annual feature. Preston Red Rope had appeared.

He said that there was a need to encourage people into the club.

Adrian reported that it had been hoped more would have been achieved during the year. Two buildings that were investigated were found to be unsuitable.

There was a suggestion that the YHA could be approached again as some buildings were due to be sold at auction. However it would be difficult to compete in the open market.

Hopefully when in better health he would become more active.

Titch Kavanagh was not available to give a report.

National Secretaries Jan Saunders & John Shears

National Admin Treasurer Jenny Patient

National Trips Treasurer Humphrey Southall

Contact and Information Officer Uta Praekelt

Membership Secretary Gill Platt

Bulletin Editor Anna Buehring

IT Officer Dave Jefferies

National Trips Secretary Arthur Howarth

Training Officer Titch Kavanagh

Ramblers’ Association Officer Becky Bates

Publicity Officer Jan Lancaster

Access & Conservation Officer David Chanter

Gear Co-ordinator Ian Muir

MIS Editor Mark Wallis

Hut Officers Vacant

Alpine Activities Facilitator Andrew Phillips

of Scotland Representative Vacant

BMC Nikki Finch

Archivist Andy Bateman

Two motions were proposed in order to correct the error in failing to omit figures from the constitution last year.

The NC is doing an information systems review so that the correct definitive charges/figures will be safely recorded and maintained.

Section H/2 Jake Jackson queried the wording and Pauline Appleton queried the sentence order. After some discussion it was agreed that the paragraph would read: ’Members are charged on their disposable income. This is defined as total income less tax and National Insurance, also deducting housing costs within an agreed limit. The income band and the limit are as set from time to time by the AGM and published to the membership at least twice a year in club publications. Housing costs are mortgage/rent and council tax.

All were in favour of these changes which are to be ratified at the 2005 AGM.

Section H/3 and Section I/1

Motions 2 and 3 were passed after some discussion and agreement that the National Committee checks the discussed new wording is satisfactory.

Jenny Patient proposed it reads a) The club will produce..

Colin Knowles suggested that the new National Secretaries re-write the entry paragraphs as required.

It was confirmed that the RR Members’ Handbook does exist but a semi-updated draft version (that was with Charlie Fisher) had not been completed and distributed.

It was agreed that the new NC could explore this issue. Jan Lancaster, the Publicity Officer, said that she was happy to take on the job of producing an up-dated Members’ Handbook. Dave Jefferies said the subject needs discussion.

All voted in favour of the motions as remitted to the NC.
ACTION

1. Request for more flexible approach to single parents working full-time and consequently charged on high band. Remitted to NC for discussion.
2. Request for Trip Organisers/Form to highlight when trip suitable for children.
3. Request for AGM accommodation to be more child friendly during meeting.

A request was made for money to be invested in the RR marquee which needs repair. This led to the suggestion that it would be worth looking into the cost of a new marquee as opposed to repair and/or the purchase of a smaller additional marquee suitable for regional use.

It was brought to members’ notice that RR member Jean Duggleby was taking part in this walk and information would be displayed if anyone wished to sponsor the charity.

There is nothing in the constitution which bans trips outside the British Isles. A resolution can go to the NC about organising such a trip.

As travel is so much cheaper nowadays Andrew Worsley felt it was time to look at the possibility of organising a fully banded trip adhering to most RR rules. The advantage of camping is that there is no need to pay for a fixed number of places. The concern was making a big loss on the trip. Arthur Howarth saw 3 reasons why such a trip could lose money.

1. Poor organisation – Would NC supervise it.
2. Low band participants – But club aims to assist those on low incomes
3. Large no. of children reduces income – But favoured area Ailefroide Campsite very suited to families.

Andrew Worsley expressed enthusiasm about such a trip being organised.

Deposits: Humphrey Southall did not think that the half the nightly charge UK deposits would be appropriate for an outside the UK trip. A higher deposit would be necessary which would technically be against the constitution.

Acclimatisation: Jake Jackson said the need for flexibility could cause financing difficulties. Some members might wish to go for part of the time but for alpine climbing acclimatisation time is important.

Pilot: Andy Bateman was in favour of expending a certain amount of money in order to discover how viable such a trip is. The Club exists because over the years people have had ideas and given them a go. This was the first major innovation for a while.

Safeguards: Rod Eastwood and Humphrey expressed cautionary notes. Would the NC put a cut off point and what decision would be made regarding deposits.

Complex: Andrew Phillips pointed out that such a trip might not be as easy to organise within the banding scheme as people initially think. Alpine trips are usually between 2 to 3 weeks long and are often peoples’ annual holiday. He was wondering how the banding system would actually work.

Colin expressed the belief that the new legislation is deeply flawed and does not meet the objectives as set out in the RR constitution. He asked what others’ feelings were and what plans the club had for campaigning for change.

Charlie Fisher said that the Ramblers felt they had got something but he believed that a broader vision was needed. He suggested that a walk could be arranged at the border between England and Scotland that would demonstrate the wrongness of what is legal in Scotland being illegal in England and Wales.

He was personally interested in this approach and hoped momentum could be generated for future action.

Titch Kavanagh had attended one of the celebration events and said one thing that inspired him was the Access to Bowland group which had developed after RR led action there.

Jake Jackson said that all members of the club need to inform themselves on these matters and advised the new Bulletin Editor to commission articles giving a critical assessment of the legislation.

Matthew Simon wanted to speak more positively on the subject despite the problems with access to woodland.. He believes something has been achieved. The BMC has campaigned successfully for climbing access and occupiers’ liability. Mountaineers have gained something. In Wales the new law will make a significant difference.

Gill Cox added that she felt being able to see the new access land marked on the map was a bonus.

Jake Jackson mentioned that new access land could be seen on the Peak Park and Countryside Agency web sites.

The Meeting closed at 19.32.